Comments on The Galaxy Express: Branding Science Fiction Romance, Part II

Well said, Elise--thanks for commenting!

2009-11-02T21:00:43.854-05:00

Well said, Elise--thanks for commenting!

See how far behind I am? I've been reading my CP's...

2009-11-02T16:27:43.182-05:00

See how far behind I am? I've been reading my CP's latest, so I'm behind on blogs. Bad writer. No cookie.

I agree that the omega hero can work extremely well or SFR, where tech intersects so strongly with survival. The appeal of the Alpha, I think, is rooted strongly in the Darwinian appeal of a man that can take care of his partner. In that sense, the Omega hero can function just as effectively in an SFR as an Alpha because of the reliance on things other than muscle. Brains, experience, and sheer willingness to stick are worth a lot more in a SF world.

I agree that character has to be the cornerstone, but that is true of all romance - it is, IMHO, a requirement of romance. If I am not invested in the characters, I don't care about their relationship and the romance falls flat.

Thanks, Laurie! Good point about the possibilities...

2009-11-01T21:49:36.361-05:00

Thanks, Laurie! Good point about the possibilities being more than just cyborgs. There's supehero type characters (I believe A.J. Menden has a story along those lines), and genetically enhanced humans/humanoids, both of which alone offer myriad choices.

@Heather Another fabulous discussion for the Skif...

2009-11-01T12:35:50.046-05:00

@Heather Another fabulous discussion for the Skiffy Rommer set. I must admit, like Katherine Allred I learned about many SFR books {like CLOSE ENCOUNTERS), authors and icons through this blog, even though I'm an avid SFR fan and writer. It's very difficult to find SFR books without having a site like The Galaxy Express dedicated to promoting and educating readers about our favorite subgenre. So kudos once again for all your efforts, Heather.

Quoted by ozambersand:
The comment by Paul Nicholas Boylan worried me: "... what you call science fiction was a product of a unique, limited period in western cultural history. That time has come and gone and science fiction is going with it. What you see as artistic degradation is nothing more than the genre dying."

I think it's quite the opposite. I think SF is a genre evolving, not dying, with the increasing popularity of SFR.

Quoted by ozombersand:
And as for Lexie's comment: Alphas do bring with them more readers, but perhaps the sci-fi Alpha hero needs to be a different species in itself, his Alpha-ness dictated by the world/tech he so arrogantly resides in."

Bring on the cyborgs.

The Vampire/Cyborg comparisons above really got me thinking. There is a definite correlation. Both contain superhuman traits but for very different reasons. But I'd hate to see a rash of cyborg stories in SFR the way the market has been flooded with so many *yawn* vampire stories. (Enough already, it's been done..and done..and DONE to death!) SFR gives so many options in terms of how technology can enhance human ability that it doesn't always have to be because the character is or becomes a cyborg. The possiblilities are endless. The element that (IMHO) differentiates SFR from other genres is the ability to break away from stereotypes and take the reader somewhere they haven't been before--emotionally or mentally or otherwise. Somewhere fresh and imaginative. In SFR the rules are that there are no rules. The sky is not the limit. :)

this statement would only be true if people's imag...

2009-10-29T20:03:57.512-04:00

this statement would only be true if people's imagination is dying or being constricted by reality. (Is it?)

I think reports of SF's demise have been greatly exaggerated.

I can't be the only one who wants all the details of both genres even if it means the novel is twice as long

Well, count me in, so that makes two of us! Mainly, though, if enough publishers were releasing SFR, my hope is that we'd have both types of stories geared toward both types of readers. Digital mediums could conceivably fill some of the need for readers who want longer stories, although with erotica dominating that market I'm not sure they're willing to explore that just yet.

Interesting article you linked to above, Heather. ...

2009-10-29T18:05:18.109-04:00

Interesting article you linked to above, Heather.
The comment by Paul Nicholas Boylan worried me: "... what you call science fiction was a product of a unique, limited period in western cultural history. That time has come and gone and science fiction is going with it. What you see as artistic degradation is nothing more than the genre dying."
If, as I see it, science fiction is the great "what if", this statement would only be true if people's imagination is dying or being constricted by reality. (Is it?)

And as for Lexie's comment: Alphas do bring with them more readers, but perhaps the sci-fi Alpha hero needs to be a different species in itself, his Alpha-ness dictated by the world/tech he so arrogantly resides in."

Bring on the cyborgs.

Thanks, Heather. I'll read the article. I love Wen...

2009-10-29T14:32:26.193-04:00

Thanks, Heather. I'll read the article. I love Wen Spencer! Her Ukiah Oregon series was really good. I loved the blood mice.

I'll check out Kristin Landon's stories too.

In my post I didn't necessarily mean literary SF versus pop SF but rather that it seems the discussions seem to always have the undertone of toning down the sf to attract Romance readers, rather than leaving in the harder elements of sf AND blending in the Romance too--trying not to lighten either one. But leaving in the harder elements to attract the SF crowd as well.

I can't be the only one who wants all the details of both genres even if it means the novel is twice as long. Yes, I know this pipe-dream is unreasonable in that publishers don't want to print many 600 page books. I happen to like 600+ page books. LOL.

@Jess Thanks for your kind words. As for Luke, he ...

2009-10-29T13:21:38.518-04:00

@Jess Thanks for your kind words. As for Luke, he looks rather constipated to me.

Thanks, Ella!

AnnaM, check out this article/rant (and the comments) on the topic of SF and the issues you observed (hard/literary SF with limited(?) audience vs. pop SF with wide appeal. Not sure I agree with everything but it brings up some valid & interesting points. I may blog about some of them.

just ADD more detail of the relationship to the existing stories.

That's what I'd like to see, too. See, if there were just more books published, we'd get this kind of variety! I second Kimber An's Outback Stars recommendation, and you might also enjoy Kristin Landon's trilogy that starts with THE HIDDEN WORLDS. Also, ENDLESS BLUE by Wen Spencer although I'll bet you've already read it.

Hi, Kimber. Thanks! I do have all of Linnea's book...

2009-10-29T12:10:20.806-04:00

Hi, Kimber. Thanks! I do have all of Linnea's books. I'm reading Downhome Zombie Blues now. And I have Outback Stars but haven't read it yet. I'll move it to the top of my pile.

Thanks again!

"After reading this and other blogs, plus countles...

2009-10-29T11:56:21.908-04:00

"After reading this and other blogs, plus countless posts about futuristics/sfrs/speculative stories I'm starting to think I'm in the minority. That in order to write something that sells to more than my family I'll have to lighten up what I want to write quite a bit and that what I truly want to read isn't out there because not enough other people want to read it."

There are books for you and a market for what you like. Linnea Sinclair can be found in the Romance aisles now. There is what we call 'Romantic Science Fiction,' which is what you're describing, I think. Have you read OUTBACK STARS? I did, but I heard the sequel was more romantic and haven't read that. It's shelved in regular Science Fiction.

Just wanted to say that, as a woman, I love the sc...

2009-10-29T10:45:59.811-04:00

Just wanted to say that, as a woman, I love the science and the worldbuilding in stories. The lack of details in some books are what makes me stop reading them. To me the In Death series, and Jayne Castle's series had the same feel--more like paranormals than science fiction to me. I tried to read them but couldn't stay interested.

But I, too, came from the hard sf side and so find it difficult to find sfrs that are "hard" enough for me, no pun intended. LOL.

After reading this and other blogs, plus countless posts about futuristics/sfrs/speculative stories I'm starting to think I'm in the minority. That in order to write something that sells to more than my family I'll have to lighten up what I want to write quite a bit and that what I truly want to read isn't out there because not enough other people want to read it.

Maybe, I'll just have to adjust my thinking and accept that what I like is two separate beasts--SFR for the heavy relationship stories, and straight sf for my worldbuilding/science fixes. Catherine Asaro's Skolian Empire series is wonderful to me, and would be the perfect SFR blend for me if the Romances were expanded by a hundred pages a book. Don't make the book shorter or take anything out, mind you, just ADD more detail of the relationship to the existing stories.

I also have the impression, incorrect or not, from these discussions that most of the desired "expansion" in SFR is to appeal to the Romance readership and that it's almost assumed the SF readers can't be attracted. I fully understand that the reason for this is probably because Romance readers buy more books, but for some reason this makes me a bit sad. Maybe it's because that emphasizes how what I truly crave to read is so unpopular it isn't meant to be. (Really long novels that blend hard sf and Romance replete with all the wonderful worldbuilding nitty gritty and technobabble.)

So far, Linnea's books and Catherine Asaro's books come closest to what I'm looking for. I may not always understand Catherine's physics but I love trying to figure it out by context.

I have to admit,I love Star Wars too and I think I could enjoy writing stories like that. I just don't see how one could write a story like it without including all the alien things or tech in the background. It's one thing to have a movie and *see* it all without needing explanations, but to read it you'd either have to mention the worldbuilding details or the reader would assume there's nothing there.

Susan's Contact did a terrific job of sneaking in some worldbuilding details.

Sorry to be longwinded. I'm on cold meds. LOL.

"And all heroes should be Han. :)" Except blond, ...

2009-10-29T10:39:07.158-04:00

"And all heroes should be Han. :)"

Except blond, right?

Ditto what Jess said, you do an amazing job, Heath...

2009-10-29T10:15:55.093-04:00

Ditto what Jess said, you do an amazing job, Heather.

And all heroes should be Han. :)

Oh, and what the heck is up with Luke's expression...

2009-10-28T23:59:14.885-04:00

Oh, and what the heck is up with Luke's expression in that poster?

BTW, you do amazing things with this blog, Heather...

2009-10-28T23:58:39.218-04:00

BTW, you do amazing things with this blog, Heather.

I think Joanna Lindsey had some blond heroes, too....

2009-10-28T22:24:04.662-04:00

I think Joanna Lindsey had some blond heroes, too. And I'm off to see if I can get Contact for the Kindle. I'm assuming it's not the one the movie with Jodie Foster was made from.

P.S. I've been seriously trying to decide what/who my hero is going to be in my next book and I think you guys gave me some great ideas. Especially since I need someone darker for this particular book.

C.J. Cherryh has a bunch of blond heroes. She's n...

2009-10-28T21:55:10.824-04:00

C.J. Cherryh has a bunch of blond heroes. She's not really doing SFR although sometimes there is romance in her plots and of the characters, like Bren Cameron have romantic stories in the old-fashion bigger-than-real-life meaning of the word.

I second, third, fourth(?) the recommendations for...

2009-10-28T21:43:30.304-04:00

I second, third, fourth(?) the recommendations for CONTACT. The realism of the setting lends it a lot of tension, and I thought the romance was very sweet (without being saccharine).

@BevBB Thanks for the links. I'll check 'em out.

When I will the lottery and become filthy stinking rich I'm going to open a SFR book store.

Some years back I had a fantasy about opening a bookstore like that and calling it...The Galaxy Express. Then I found out blogs are much more affordable!

I'm plumping for more cyborgs as an Alpha Male concept that may capture non scifi romance readers to the market.

My thoughts as well, which I should have articulated more clearly in the post. Maybe cyborg Alpha's with a rip-roaring sense of humor...?

perhaps the sci-fi Alpha hero needs to be a different species in itself

Lexxie, exactly. Makes me think of heroes like Flash Gordon, only with an update in terms of the science fictional and characterization elements. Oh, and Mike Donovan from V--say, he's kind of blond, right?!!

@Mfitz Well said regarding CONTACT's hero.

I loved Contact. That book made me cry so darn ha...

2009-10-28T21:36:09.762-04:00

I loved Contact. That book made me cry so darn hard. It came out right after 9/11, but was written before, which was unfortunate timing, because on the back of the book it played up that the airplane was "hijacked." Which isn't exactly what is going on, abducted is a little closer to the picture.

But I think a lot of people shied away from it because the hijacked plane thing was too close at the time. It was a very dark book, but brilliant. It won the Rita that year.

Contact is a neat twist on an Alien Abduction stor...

2009-10-28T21:26:56.207-04:00

Contact is a neat twist on an Alien Abduction story. I think it was also in a way a response to the events of 9/11. It deals with the passangers and crew of a 747 jet who are Hi-jacked? Kidnapped? Rescued? by aliens. The Heroine is the jet's pilot, the hero is one of the aliens. There is intrigue, romance and some nicely done supporting characters.

The thing I like about it is that the SF part of the story, the "Why did the aliens really grab this jet?" plot keeps you turning pages just as much as the Romance does.

One interesting thing about Contact, especially given the recent discussion of Alpha Heros is that the Hero in the book is sort of a supressed Alpha character. He is someone who has the potential to be a not pain-in-the bazootie style Alpha, but is becasuse of culture and fate an underling taking orders from less capable people. Part of the plot resolution is him realizing this and taking personal control of his future.

Personally, I think the Omega hero works very well...

2009-10-28T21:07:51.537-04:00

Personally, I think the Omega hero works very well for sci-fi (the last of his kind, a little belligerent, a little sarcastic, with no reason to need to save the world/heroine except to shut her up - until he realises he's fallen for her).

Alphas do bring with them more readers, but perhaps the sci-fi Alpha hero needs to be a different species in itself, his Alpha-ness dictated by the world/tech he so arrogantly resides in? (of course, I have no idea what that Alpha-ness would be *grin* At least, not yet...)

What factors will provide SFR with wider appeal? I...

2009-10-28T18:10:14.559-04:00

What factors will provide SFR with wider appeal?
I can understand why many current scifi readers would not like to see a sudden influx of alpha male heroes (or heroines), but they would give the genre wider appeal.
There'll always be the great stories of the nerdy sidekick winning the day, but you won't attract readers who love regency rakes, vampires and werewolfs across that way.
Isn't that what we're trying to do?

I'm plumping for more cyborgs as an Alpha Male con...

2009-10-28T17:43:46.619-04:00

I'm plumping for more cyborgs as an Alpha Male concept that may capture non scifi romance readers to the market.

Their characters are already popular in movies. They may start out as the villain. Think Terminator. But even then, they became the good guy. Bladerunner also had broad appeal.

To me, they're the equivalent of the vampire and werewolf. The male that has qualities humans don't have.

There's lots of room for angst. One of my all time favourites is Linnea's Kel Patten. It showed the elements that need to be included. Not just a character who can do everything, but the one who regrets he isn't human and will never be loved because of his unnatural abilities.

Medically enhanced or bio-engineered Superhuman qualities in both males and females already resonate in many scifi novels.

Maybe a few cyborg/super human anthologies might attract across a few readers.

Why have I not read Contact? Hmmm. It's probably...

2009-10-28T17:43:45.068-04:00

Why have I not read Contact?

Hmmm. It's probably a plot thing. I'm a "by the plot" reader/book picker. Not by sub-genre, I mean. Or even themes, necessarily.

Which is why I end up skipping all over the daggone place in romances. ;)

So, anyway, what's the plot of Contact? Not ringing any bells here.

When I will the lottery and become filthy stinking...

2009-10-28T16:21:27.167-04:00

When I will the lottery and become filthy stinking rich I'm going to open a SFR book store. Heck, if I'm filthy stinking rich enough I may start my own SFR publishing house.

If you like SFR you really should read Contact. It's just about the perfect SF/Romance blend in my opinion.

I Also like her book were the heroine in a pudgy middle-aged mom. That might be "How to lose and Extraterrestrial...."

Plus she used to have a nice blog, but I don't know if she does anymore. Working outside at a park all summer has played havoc on my keeping up with the blog-o-sphere.