tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post1896222147246908323..comments2009-02-11T08:28:32.783-05:00Heather Masseyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00913459109753829391noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-4308948629613391932009-02-11T08:28:00.000-05:002009-02-11T08:28:00.000-05:00Heather -<BR/><BR/>Extensive worldlbuilding *is* the stumbling block for traditional romance publishers, for a whole bunch of reasons.<BR/><BR/>Ooo, I feel a blog post coming on! LOL Look for it Friday<BR/>http://www.delacroix.net/blog<BR/><BR/>Deborah/Clairedeb43http://shapeshifterromance.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-86258082943142992712009-02-11T00:42:00.000-05:002009-02-11T00:42:00.000-05:00Luna's February 2009 release is in stores, so they aren't completely gone. It's a small paperback version of something that's been out a long time in a larger format, so they do those at times. {Smile}<BR/><BR/>Anne Elizabeth BaldwinAnne Elizabeth Baldwinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05083766769757259822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-61080840770596014412009-02-10T20:52:00.000-05:002009-02-10T20:52:00.000-05:00Nathalie, thanks for your kind words, and for your frankness. You hit on my concern about the perception that love &amp; rivets is mutually exclusive. <BR/><BR/>I mean, look at historical romances. There&#39;s a lot of historical knowledge packed into those stories. The same smarts readers use for historical romances are the same smarts they&#39;d use for SFR. <BR/><BR/>Anne, I know I&#39;ve stumbled across surprising finds any number of times. It definitely pays to be looking in unexpected places. <BR/><BR/>Kimber An, you&#39;re hired!<BR/><BR/>Mfitz, I heard something about Luna too, but now I can&#39;t remember if it was the line ending or the number of books decreasing. But mass market paperbacks are definitely more convenient.<BR/><BR/>Ella, interesting info--thanks for sharing! <BR/><BR/>Linnea, good point. I agree, SHOMI books have a grittier edge and the effort put into worldbuilding/sfnal aspects across the different books seems consistent (from the books excerpts I&#39;ve read). Maybe that&#39;s where we&#39;ll start to see some hard SF elements here and there.<BR/><BR/>Susan, those issues definitely come into play. I think this is a time where authors and publishers might experiment with various SFR stories to see how best it can all play out, in terms of balancing the story elements and marketing them. <BR/><BR/>Btw, Susan, you won! So if you&#39;re reading this, send me your address if you want to claim your prize of the futuristic romance giveaway! sfrgalaxy &quot;at&quot; gmail.com<BR/><BR/>Deborah, thanks for visiting! I appreciate the insight into your experience. While I will happily suspend my disbelief about almost anything in genre fiction, I can understand how challenging it must be for publishers to market books with so many cross genre elements.<BR/><BR/>As for FALLEN, I can see it under SF/Romance or paranormal, but fantasy would have been a big stretch, at least for me. I thought the SF elements were intriguing and also very prevalent. The angels were a nice touch, but it was the worldbuilding that really caught my eye.<BR/><BR/>By the way, Linnea Sinclair has started a discussion at Goodreads entitled <A HREF="http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/104604?utm_medium=email&utm_source=comment_instant" REL="nofollow">"Should SFR be a part of PNR?"</A> so if you have a chance, please chime in with your thoughts. Fyi, you'll have to register to comment. Thanks!Heatherhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00913459109753829391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-51494943543487040352009-02-10T18:55:00.000-05:002009-02-10T18:55:00.000-05:00Well, I think there are constraining expectations all around. When I first wrote FALLEN, it was a mystery with a romance subplot and it was impossible to place. The SF people said it couldn't be SF because it had fallen angels, and the fantasy people said it couldn't be fantasy because it had radiation poisoning and fallout. And I thought this was incredibly weird, because to me it was a story, and it seemed plausible to me that in a future society in which radiation mutation is rampant, they'd assume that fallen angels were mutants - not angels. <BR/><BR/>I had long talks with many editors and lots of strange ideas came out. In the end, I suggested to Anna Genoese, who loved the book, that I switch the main plot to the romance and make the murder be the subplot, and she bought it (right before she left Tor).<BR/><BR/>But to my astonishment, it says Paranormal Romance on the spine. I think, really, that publishers and booksellers don't know what to do with these books, and that as there get to be more of them, the marketing will be more refined.<BR/><BR/>At least I hope so!<BR/>Deborah<BR/>aka Clairedeb43http://shapeshifterromance.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-7124996316119578562009-02-10T17:53:00.000-05:002009-02-10T17:53:00.000-05:00Hmmm. That is a good question when you're mixing those two genres. My publisher, The Wild Rose Press, only publishes romance, but in a wide variety of genres. They do publish science fiction romance, but don't have a separate division for it, so for now it goes under their fantasy line. Probably because they don't have enough sci-fi submissions yet. <BR/><BR/>But I think publishers who do science fiction would be the best place to combine the genres, maybe that would validate it more than if a traditional romance publisher took it on. But then there's that problem of real sci-fi readers who don't want romance in their stories.Susan Macateehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07476340887041053638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-84063876129582021692009-02-10T17:37:00.000-05:002009-02-10T17:37:00.000-05:00The SHOMI line makes my inner Chihuahua chase her tail with savage glee. I recently read Twist (she made me cry near the end, damn her!).<BR/><BR/>And the covers. Yummy.NathalieGrayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05048778236417496109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-17171895524912141012009-02-10T17:33:00.000-05:002009-02-10T17:33:00.000-05:00<I>Additionally, Science Fiction Romance falls victum to Trend Hell more often because of it being crammed under the Paranormal Romance umbrella. (((sigh))) </I><BR/><BR/>Kimber An, this is a brilliant analysis. ::Linnea smacks self on forehead:: IMHO nothing will sink a genre faster than Trend Hell. ~LinneaLinnea Sinclairhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03633057411107208569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-27881189085887512012009-02-10T17:31:00.000-05:002009-02-10T17:31:00.000-05:00I just read Eve Kenin's HIDDEN. Dorchester's SHOMI line is very much dipper into the SFR waters, though admittedly not "in space" kind of SFR. More "Mad Max" SFR, a la Marianne de Pierres' NYLON ANGEL books. But worthy, definitely worthy.<BR/><BR/>I was impressed by the depth of medical knowledge in Kenin's HIDDEN until I read in her bio that she's not only a chiropractor but has a degree in microbiology and teaches human anatomy. Yowza. Her knowledge is awesome and honestly, HIDDEN could have been a "straight" SF novel (and Kimber An, it's not Love-Graphic.) <BR/><BR/>The reason I bring this up is that Dorchester is (to the best of my knowledge) the "Creator" of Futuristics and as such, has often been considered fluffy. There's nothing fluffy about HIDDEN. There was nothing fluffy about Colby Hodge's TWIST either, also in the same Shomi line. <BR/><BR/>I'm just hoping Shomi doesn't go the way of Bombshell. I loved the books I read in that line. But the publisher (Silhoutte/HQN) clearly didn't understand the readership.<BR/><BR/>~Linnea<BR/><BR/>PS: I bounced from Bantam Spectra to Bantam Dell, though I'm still edited by Spectra, which is the hard SF imprint there.Linnea Sinclairhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03633057411107208569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-86367075630478468712009-02-10T10:19:00.000-05:002009-02-10T10:19:00.000-05:00I pitched an SFR to Harlequin at a conference. The bottom line is that they don't close the door on that genre (especially in the Luna line) if the story is good, etc.<BR/><BR/>HQN does have Susan Grant, which is more "futuristic", but the foot could be considered in the door there.Ella Drakehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00065576682504057608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-70462512578161321932009-02-10T08:45:00.000-05:002009-02-10T08:45:00.000-05:00I thought that Luna had folded? Is that true? I got one or two of their books from the library but I didn't buy any. Most were more Fantasy than my taste, or at least marketed that way. But my big gripe with them was most of the their books were large format paperbacks. I only buy mass market paperbacks, if a book comes out in large format or hardback I get it from the library or pass. the trade paperbacks are too expensive, take up too much shelf space, and are a pain to carry around tossed in a purse.Mfitzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11360148925967461614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-39899739988184431052009-02-10T08:24:00.000-05:002009-02-10T08:24:00.000-05:00"I wonder if this isn't another sexist thing, that a genre that's primarily intended for women can't possibly be both at once: good SF and good romance."<BR/><BR/>That and I think marketing reinforces it. The Romance genre waaaay outsells SF and it's assumed girls must have a lot of the mushy stuffy anyway.<BR/><BR/>The trouble I have is both SF and Romance have constraining conventions. Additionally, Science Fiction Romance falls victum to Trend Hell more often because of it being crammed under the Paranormal Romance umbrella. (((sigh))) Meanwhile, regular Science Fiction is just too hostile to anything which doesn't toe its line, and yet they can't figure out why their numbers are declining. (((rolls eyes)))Kimber Anhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03982239712083114488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-80388596874903990502009-02-10T04:01:00.000-05:002009-02-10T04:01:00.000-05:00Thanks for the welcome, Heather, {SMILE}<BR/><BR/>I don't know what else might be hiding in Harlequin. I wasn't trying to do a comprehensive search when stumbled across <I>The Morcai Battalion</I>. I was just going thru Luna's backlist looking for potential Christmas gifts.<BR/><BR/>I don't even know why that one caught my eye. I just remember that when I read the sample chapter, I noticed an alien planet, exobiologists, hover-cars (for all intents), but neither an elf or magic spell around. {Chuckle, BIG GRIN, wink}<BR/><BR/>Anne Elizabeth BaldwinAnne Elizabeth Baldwinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05083766769757259822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-14449123405166431002009-02-10T03:17:00.000-05:002009-02-10T03:17:00.000-05:00Heather... As soon as the cloning technology is mainstream, I swear, I'm starting a petition to have you cloned. We *need* more Heathers.<BR/><BR/>I wonder if this isn't another sexist thing, that a genre that's primarily intended for women can't possibly be both at once: good SF and good romance. You know what I mean? A romance author can't be expected to know anything about *true* or *hard* SF and that her readers, gentle beings that they are, wouldn't know the difference anyway...<BR/><BR/>Sarcasm aside, I'll keep saying it until I'm blue in the face: love and rivets are not mutually excluding.<BR/><BR/>Bad writing is bad writing. It exists in all genres, sub-genres, non-genres, has always existed and will as long as humans string words together. In some genres like romance, the less-than-stellar examples seem to pollute everything else, even only by association.<BR/><BR/>I'm guilty of that. I grew up on SF and fantasy, tried a couple of times to read "that romance stuff" and happened on a couple of bad books. Of course, in my tiny head, it meant romance wasn't for me, that it sucked, etc, etc. As if the handful of stories I read had somehow become a representation of the genre, instead of just a bunch of books I didn't like. It took another 15-16 years for me to read another book labeled as romance. And guess what? It had conflict, it had a smart and strong heroine, an equally smart and strong hero, plenty of interesting villains. Suddenly, I was kicking myself for allowing a handful of bad apples to sour the whole genre for me.<BR/><BR/>Hey, I never said I was smart.NathalieGrayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05048778236417496109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-10132489846019256022009-02-09T23:18:00.000-05:002009-02-09T23:18:00.000-05:00Anne, hello and thanks so much for the heads up about Ms. Palmer's book. <BR/><BR/>This is yet another example of why word of mouth is crucial for these books. I never would have thought to search for an SFR under the LUNA imprint. (A visit to the author's <A HREF="http://www.dianapalmer.com/backlist.html" REL="nofollow">Web site</A> reveals that it was published as an SF book while at Manor Books. Interesting!)<BR/><BR/>Obviously, since I didn't know about it I haven't read it, but hopefully I can check it out soon. <BR/><BR/>I wonder if Harlequin has other hidden SFR treasures?Heatherhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00913459109753829391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-30348069739708914652009-02-09T22:47:00.000-05:002009-02-09T22:47:00.000-05:00Actually, I think your Harlequin scenario happened with Diane Palmer's <I>The Morcai Battalion</I>. Apparently they didn&#39;t have a problem with it, since they published it under their Luna imprint in 2007. ( http://www.eharlequin.com/storeitem.html?iid=16125&amp;cid=309 )<BR/><BR/>I&#39;m still thinking over the rest of your post. You do make some good points. {Smile}<BR/><BR/>Anne Elizabeth BaldwinAnne Elizabeth Baldwinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05083766769757259822noreply@blogger.com