Comments on THE GALAXY EXPRESS: MY WIFE IS A GANGSTER & The Nurturing Hero

I can see why the abs are important when you'e...

2009-12-06T01:56:31.671-05:00

I can see why the abs are important when you'e trying to find and take down a bunch of bad guys. However, a little paunch doesn't hurt much when the nurturing hero is trying to talk a potential suicide in off a ledge. If it doesn't hurt then, I don't see why it should hurt the night after. {wink, SMILE}

Anne Elizabeth Baldwin

but that doesn't stop me from wishing someo...

2009-12-05T19:56:59.314-05:00
but that doesn't stop me from wishing someone would think it was worth telling.

*Applauds*

Execution is everything, as they say. A hero can be nurturing and be just as good a hero/lover as the next man--whether he's got a sweet paunch or rock-hard abs!

I keep thinking about this nurturing hero post. So...

2009-12-05T04:53:44.018-05:00
I keep thinking about this nurturing hero post. Someone insisted it has been tried, and failed. {pause}

{Sigh} As far as I could tell, what had been tried was having the heroine fight the bad guys, and the hero help her get in touch with her feelings in between fights. That kind of situation makes the fights more important than the feelings. It also puts the hero right out of his element. I don't blame folks for not picking those up; I don't want to read about that, either. {wry look}

I'd still like to see more nurturing hero stories. I'd like to see this kind of hero matched with a heroine who needs the kind of emotional support that he can give better than anyone else. I know I've faced medical problems, family problems, and friend problems where weapons are useless. Knowing how to hold a weapon doesn't help when a loved one need to adapt to a handicap, face a serious illness, or deal with the loss of a loved one of their own. What helps is knowing how to listen sympathetically. What helps is knowing when to hold them while they cry. What helps is knowing when to take them out for a drive so they can get away from the sick room for an hour or two. This is the kind of support a nurturing hero does better than any other. That support makes a real difference. It can prevent a nervous breakdown. It can head off clinical depression. It can even prevent suicide. In this sort of story, the nurturing hero would be just as much a savior as any man who rescued a gal from the clutches of a villian.

I've learned not to expect this sort of tale from science fiction... but that doesn't stop me from wishing someone would think it was worth telling. {wistful smile}

Anne Elizabeth Baldwin

you really can't see yourself going to b...

2009-11-16T23:16:15.218-05:00
you really can't see yourself going to bed with him

I’m sure I’m in a minority of one, but I sure can. *grin*

Not at all. I have more trouble seeing myself going to bed with someone who doesn't have a good strong nurturing side. But that's me. {Amused Smile}

Actually, what would help bring this sort of hero to the fore is finding the stories where being sensitive and nurturing solves problems. These stories do exist in science fiction; it's not all action-adventure. I remember finding some in my few forays into romance, too. So it's just a matter of figuring out how and where they fit into SFR. {Smile}

Anne Elizabeth Baldwin

@Kimber An I agree, but it doesn’t hurt to ask ;-)...

2009-11-16T22:37:15.355-05:00
@Kimber An I agree, but it doesn’t hurt to ask ;-)

@Eloriealton Oh, you’re right (at least imho)! I’d forgotten about them. Good call.

@Jess Very true! Now, if Soren would just gain about seventy pounds or so and grow a nice huggable paunch…perfection! Lol, kidding! Thanks for reminding me.

@Anne And if he can cook, too, woo-hoo! For some reason, this hero type also reminded me of Steven Seagal’s role in UNDER SEIGE. Putting aside for the moment that his character used to be a Navy Seal, I’ve always thought it really cool that he was a “lowly” cook, and therefore the unexpected hero. The villains underestimated him as I recall, because of that. And what do cooks do, in part? They nurture people with food.

@J.C. Hay Yes, I did, but it was years and years ago (incidentally, I still own it on VHS, zoinks!). I liked the stylistic elements but didn’t enjoy it as much as I’d hoped. I do remember that romance element now that you mention it. I think this is a dynamic that is explored in Asian cinema more frequently than in U.S. films.

you really can't see yourself going to bed with him

I’m sure I’m in a minority of one, but I sure can. *grin* And while I’ve not seen Heroes, I do find Hiro attractive. I like my Asian men to have some meat on ‘em! But I do see your point regarding the anthropological underpinnings of sexual attraction. It’s just that my fantasies take different paths on occasion.

AnnaM, excellent point about FARSCAPE.

hate the "alpha male", it's a standard in romance.

Jennifer, I was probably asking for the Moon here, no doubt about it. But this didn’t come from a place of hating alpha heroes; rather I intended to posit the idea of having a few of these heroes on the sidelines. Or one as dessert, lol!

“Moments of power.” Me like, Jess!

Well, I couldn't make him boring. That's ...

2009-11-16T18:55:43.838-05:00
Well, I couldn't make him boring. That's the one rule of fiction I know you can't break. LOL. But in essence, while Soren has his feral moments, he is in his essence, a farmer.

Cyani was part of her ruling Elite.

I think it works because while that is true, I didn't make the fact Cyani is a booty-kicker and Soren was a slave the crux of the plot. It was only part of the plot.

The crux of the plot, as I see it anyway, is when given the choice between what is good for you and what is good for others, what do you choose? And what do you sacrifice for that good?

That said, I knew Soren was going to be tricky, so I had to give him his own booty-kickin moments to make sure everyone knew he was Cyani's equal in strength, power, intellegence, and honor. He had to be a worthy mate to her.

Otherwise he might have fallen into that "What a cute teddy bear. I think I'll keep him on the shelf" trap.

So I guess my advice would be, if you want to create a nurturer hero, he has to have "moments of power."

A bear is a great nurturer. Go ahead and threaten a cub and watch what happens.

Nope. I hate to say it. It's a fabulous idea...

2009-11-16T15:25:15.513-05:00
Nope. I hate to say it. It's a fabulous idea but not right now in the romance industry (if you're going for SFR) and here's why.
Harlequin answered your call and created the Bombshell line. Strong women. Slightly Beta men. Kick ass rescues by the heroine SUPPORTED by the hero.
And the line went nowhere.
As much as some hate the "alpha male", it's a standard in romance.
A good example is the vast difference between sales of Male Dom/female submissive vs. Female Domme vs. male submissive. It's a similar dynamic.
There's a definite perception that a beta (or submissive)male is "weak".
I like writing beta males though.

It's not a novel, but this sounds like Farscap...

2009-11-16T12:11:32.914-05:00
It's not a novel, but this sounds like Farscape to me.

John is the more feminine in the couple at first. Aeryn Sun is all warrior, hide your feelings, tough chick. John is all "hey don't hit me" crying when those he cares about are hurt, joke-cracking softie.

At the beginning of the series their roles are definitely reversed. But the more time they spend together the closer to the middle ground both move until, by the finale, they're both well-rounded and balanced people and definitely better for having known each other.

I adore the John/Aeryn romance in Farscape. It was subtle and not-so-subtle throughout the entire series.

And they had a happy ending! Love it.

For those PTB who say a sci fi show cannot have a love story that endures or ends happily without jumping the shark, just look at Farscape and Babylon 5.

There was and still is a market for Farscape so perhaps books like this DO have a chance. They just have to be well-done.

Hiro from Heroes is this type of character. Even t...

2009-11-16T12:03:45.164-05:00
Hiro from Heroes is this type of character. Even though he has an ability, he's so sweet and loving and clueless that you just want to scoop him up and hug him. And this season, he's risking his own life to save his love interest.

I think the problem with this type of hero is that no matter how much you love him, you really can't see yourself going to bed with him. How many times have you heard someone say, "Wow, he's such a sweet, nuturing guy. I think I'll take him to bed." My guess is never. We need/want our heroes to be sexy.

I have a theory about this. When I first started writing I read a lot on the topic of attraction between the sexes. One of the things I learned is that we always (subconsciously) end up with the best possible mate that's on the same level of attractiveness we are. ie; if we're ugly, we're going after the *best* ugly man we can find.

So, by making heroes sexy and gorgeous and intelligent, we're not only putting them putting at the top of the food chain, so to speak, we're letting all our female readers rise in status (anthopologically speaking) by giving them a chance to "win" the best guy of all.

Have you seen the film Heroic Trio (Dir. Johnny To...

2009-11-16T11:02:20.820-05:00
Have you seen the film Heroic Trio (Dir. Johnny To, 1993)? While the main thrust is the relationship between the three central characters, there's a pretty cool and deeply touching romance thread between Anita Mui and Damian Lau, that deals with his discovery that his quiet, unassuming wife is actually an ass-kicking superhero.

Jess, what kind of slave was the hero?

2009-11-16T10:59:21.634-05:00
Jess, what kind of slave was the hero?

{Sigh} There's a hero I could believe in. Not ...

2009-11-15T23:50:32.145-05:00
{Sigh} There's a hero I could believe in. Not one who swoops in and solves all your problems, any more than he expects you to solve his. Just someone to stond beside you and keep you company, so you don't have to face them alone. {tired smile}

Anne Elizabeth Baldwin

Dude? That's the dynamic I wrote in Beyond the...

2009-11-15T22:50:45.864-05:00
Dude? That's the dynamic I wrote in Beyond the Rain. I had a blast switching the roles, but making both characters powerful and vulnerable in their own right.

It seems to be doing pretty well. LOL

In some ways this is the relationship between Capt...

2009-11-15T22:15:17.231-05:00
In some ways this is the relationship between Captain Janeway and her first officer, Commander Chakotay in the Star Trek Voyager J/C shipper fandom. There are writers that perceive him as the Alpha male, but there are a lot of others that perceive him as the nurturer in that relationship.

People may be more ready for that scenario than you might think.

Elorie

Currant market, it wouldn't stand a chance. T...

2009-11-15T21:22:41.293-05:00
Currant market, it wouldn't stand a chance. The readers would really have to rally behind it to convince publishing professionals that, yes, we really want this kind of variety. Right now, they're still cramming SFR in the Paranormal Romance mold and that means Alpha Males. I am so sick of Alphas I could puke Kibbles & Bits.